Overcoming Decision Inertia: Making the Best Choice in the Face of Foreclosure

DJ Olojo [00:00:05]:

Hey, foreclosure fix family, and welcome to the foreclosure fix podcast. My name is DJ Olojo. I'm the host, and our goal here is to help 1,000,000 homeowners successfully navigate foreclosure. Now if that goal resonates with you, Please do me a favor. Like, subscribe, tell your friends so we can help more people. We wanna get the message out that there are options when you're in foreclosure. I am fired up about today's guest. It's one of my friends who I have known for a while, 16 years. It makes me feel a little old. but it is my good friend, doctor Nicky Blacksmith. Nicky, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing? Alright. I'm good. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me. I had to bring Nikki on the podcast because she is definitely one of the smartest people I know, I officially call her a a cool nerd, but she knows a ton about the decision making process. She has an extensive background and a PhD in industrial organization psychology from George Washington University and she actually did her postdoc work at the army research institute for social and behavioral sciences. where she studied the decision making process for for soldiers. So what more kinda important group of people that we can use to say, hey. Let us get a better understanding of how people who may be in challenging situations or stressful situations make decisions. So today, I'm excited to have her on, and we're gonna dive deep into what the decision making process looks like for folks who are experiencing a traumatic experience. And for those of you who don't know, sometimes foreclosure can be a very traumatic experience for the homeowner. And so, Nikki, help us understand what goes on in the mind of someone when they have to make a difficult decision.

Nikki Blacksmith [00:02:01]:

Of course. So decisions are very complex. There's lots of reasons why someone might make a delayed decision. like, good news is that there's been lots of research and some of it is mine. So I'm gonna talk a little bit about it, but first I wanna break down 3 different reasons why or, like, explanations for delaying a decision. 1 is decision avoidance. So that's the typical, like, procrastination. Like, you wanna pretend that not happening. Therefore, you're not making a decision. I'm not gonna talk about that one because that one's probably the least likely or reason for this particular, you know, delay of decisions, but there's also implementation delay. So you make a decision, but then you have a hard time actually going through and going forward with it. What I wanna talk about today is decision inertia. That means that the people, like, are are trying to make a decision. They're not trying to avoid it. It's just really difficult, and therefore, it keeps getting delayed. And this is usually what's most common when it comes to making difficult decisions. I studied what we call least worst decisions. Right? So there's people who have options, and none of them are a good option or the best option. Both options suck. And therefore, it's really difficult. You know, you have to choose, which one is the least worst of the options that I have. And when this happens, this usually is impacted by decision inertia, which is essentially a maladaptive cognitive processing. So you're thinking about the decision and your commitment to an action, and it's just ruminate on it and you think over and over again about, you know, what if, what will happen if we do that? You know, why can't We do this. It it's just like you're constantly coming up with new options. You're thinking about the potential consequences, and These types of dispositions are usually characterized by uncertainty and unpredictable events. So you can't really say what's gonna happen in the future. They're accompanied by a lot of risk. So they're pretty high stakes usually. These aren't just, you know, what am I gonna have for lunch? There's a lot of ambiguous or income fleet information. So when people make decisions, they want, you know, usually we characterize good decision making by bringing in all the necessary information and then using that to make a decision. Well, in these cases, there's a lot of times you don't have all the information or the information that you have is very ambiguous. And, also, these kinds of situations are typically time bound. So you have to do it within a certain time frame. but the situation changes in its dynamic as it goes on. So it puts the person in a very, very difficult position. where there's no very clear path to say, okay. Option a will lead to this and option b will lead to that. And they can't not make a decision. Right? because if they don't, that usually is what's worse. So what happens is their brain just continues They, like, processes the information over and over again, and they can't really decide, like, what's the best choice of action here because all the actions that I have in front of me aren't that great.

DJ Olojo [00:05:01]:

And Nikki, that's that's very interesting because I think you perfectly describe somebody who is facing foreclosure. Right? out of the thousands of people who we've talked with and and I've talked with in my career, one of the biggest things that they always tell me is that they wanna do something and they they think they should do something, but they don't like the options presented to them. And what I mean by that is like, I wanna keep my house. I like my house. Right? I wanna stay there, but I don't have the money to catch up my mortgage or to reinstate my mortgage or to even pay the monthly payment that I'm making. Right? However, because of where I'm at in life, I don't wanna file bankruptcy. And I don't want to, you know, ruin my credit and and go down that road. And then I also don't wanna sell my house because I wanna keep my house. Right? And so they go back and forth between all these different options of what they could do or what they should do, and they end up doing nothing while the time clock just kinda ticks away and ticks away and ticks away. And so I didn't know it was called, you know, decision inertia. I just thought it was like, hey. You need to, you know, either get off the pot, piss, or get off the pot, you know, that kinda whole thing. But at the at the end of the day, that's the exact cycle we see a lot of homeowners in. and a lot of borrowers in when they are trying to figure out what to do in that stressful foreclosure or pre foreclosure situation. I think the key thing that you mentioned is that these aren't people that don't wanna make a decision or trying to procrastinate. They know they have to do something. They want to do something.

Nikki Blacksmith [00:06:36]:

and it's the processing of the information that stops them, not necessarily like the the desire to make a decision. They wanna make a decision. They wanna move forward. It's just really difficult with the information and the not great options in front of them. Absolutely.

DJ Olojo [00:06:52]:

So you paid a picture of somebody who has to make a tough decision. They are not making that decision because they are ruminating or ideas and different scenarios are percolating their brain. Right? Yep. And so what steps, what things can someone do if they're in that situation, and they have to make a decision. Like, help me break down or help me understand the process. to make the most optimal decision or a better decision than just kinda not doing anything.

Nikki Blacksmith [00:07:23]:

So in the psychological literature, I'm gonna get a little nerdy on you here. We think about this in multiple ways. I mean, I was at the Army Research Institute, which is called ARI because it's a mouthful, but I -- worked with a couple of my colleagues, Neil Shortland, who's actually in Massachusetts. He's this is his specialty, his decision at nurse, but he focuses on emergency responders and military situations. What we wanted to do is look at soldier decision making, right, because what's happening is there's no known battlefield anymore. In the past, we used to say, okay. Here's the territory. We can map it and see where the the hills and the trees and, you know, where the you know, spots that we can hide, but now it's cyber war. You know, like, everything is unknown. It's it can happen anywhere and everywhere. and they want the soldiers to feel more empowered to make decisions. So we did a study where we gave the soldiers a situation where they had to make a decision, and it was a least worst decision. Basically, neither option was good. So if you think about, like, just most simplistic thing would be they're, you know, in war. They're they wanna, you know, they have an enemy and they're targeted. But if they go after this enemy, they will also there'll be negative consequences for the civilians, so they're trying to avoid that. But if they don't do it, then the enemy gets away. So that's, like, either way that both outcomes are bad. And so how do they make a decision? Well, there are 2 if you think about people, everybody's a little bit different. Right? And there are 2 types of 2 types of people, but 2 different, like, approaches to decision making. So one is the approach. orientation. So people want to accomplish the goals. So in that case, the person would probably, you know, target the enemy and go after it. Whereas then there's the other person who is more avoidant. So they wanna avoid any bad outcomes. So then they would go for the other options. So there's not one right like, path or the way people do things, you have to take into consideration, like, who is the person that's making that decision? And we actually manipulated status and power. And I think this is relevant because, you know, tell me if I'm wrong, but when you're in the decision of foreclosure, you probably ahead of a family. You're making decisions for other people that you're accountable, and that puts added stress onto the situation. A 100%. And so this is the same thing with the study that we did is that you would think that if they had more power, they would be more likely to it make the decision easier for them to make. But it actually makes it harder because they feel more accountable. They're they have to think about the how it's gonna affect other people, and it just makes it adds more information in there to for them to ruminate on. So one is just kind of, like, understanding yourself and and your preferences and how you approach situations. The other part is more about, like, situation. Like, what can you do? You know, in in psychology, I always think about the person in the situation. I give you a little bit of information about the person, but now we think about the situation. A lot of times what happens is that these decisions They lack concrete goals. So somebody might be approaching it and then just kind of like I'm just gonna try to do my best versus I'm going to try to accomplish x. So if people have more concrete goals, like, what they're trying to do, like, I wanna, you know, make sure that we save x amount of money and put aside and, you know, that might help guide their their decision. And these are terrible examples because I'm not super familiar with the the process the idea is get something attainable, like, that you can measure a goal. Whereas if you just say, like, I wanna get out of this situation, that's very ambiguous. There's no direction to go in, and it makes it harder to make decisions. So -- Let me bring it home for for our listeners as it pertains to their specific situation.

DJ Olojo [00:11:11]:

So what Doctor Blacksmith is saying, if you are in a situation, decision inertia where you know you're up against foreclosure, and you know you have to make a decision. You have 2 types. You have the approach, and you have the avoidance. Right? So that's the person. But when you have a concrete goal, I think it helps you make your decision. Right? And so if you're in foreclosure, there are two goals that you have to choose from. The goal one is to keep your house, and the goal 2 is to sell your house. Right? And so if you are in the mode where you don't know what you are going to do or what you wanna do. The first thing you should do is make a decision between yes. I wanna keep my house or I wanna let go of my house. Right? And so if you wanna keep your house, well, that's a very different line of thinking. a different mode of execution, a different mode of operation, different outcomes. However, if you know that you wanna get rid of your house and you don't want anything to do with it, That is, again, a very different mode. And so the first step is if you can make that decision between I wanna keep my house or I wanna get rid of my house it puts you in a better position, a position of power to then say, okay. I can then make the next step. I can then get out of this stage of thinking and going back and forth on different ideas to now I can make a decision. And so I think that that's the other thing. One of the things that you said with the least worst situation, and and I think a lot of times people who are in foreclosure do find themselves in a situation where they feel like it's a lease works decision because a lot of times they feel powerless and help helpless. Right? I've talked to tons of homeowners and work with homeowners where they say, I feel like I'm letting my family down. I feel like a failure. And so in addition to having to make a really crappy decision that you don't wanna make, you also have this mental baggage of I'm letting down a lot of people who I care about, who dependent on me, who I gave my word to. And so that is the other layer of complexity that I think is added. And how does that kinda play into that that process as well? Yeah. That's that's exactly what I was talking about when we have to think about, you know, it might just be a family. You know, a lot of people think about power when they think of organizations

Nikki Blacksmith [00:13:32]:

and and politics and stuff. But when you have a family, you have power, right, because you're making decisions for other people. Yep. You're accountable. might be a different type of part, but it's still power. And when you feel like you're accountable and your people are gonna be judging your decision, it makes it more difficult, right, because there's other people that you have to appease and and make sure that that it's best for them. And if it's, a couple let's say, like, husband and wife trying to make this decision, that even adds another layer of complexity because you have two people with equal level of power, hopefully. And They might not always have the same mental model or be on the same page about where it is they should go. which makes it harder then. Right? because then you have two people kind of go in different directions and there's tension or friction amongst the decision, but they don't really fully realize it because Their mental model or the way they're thinking about it is different than the other person, and they just haven't discussed that. So they don't know that they're, like, on a different page. This happens all the time with my cofounder and I at work. I You having a conversation and, you know, we use a word and I'm thinking this word means one thing. She's thinking it means another and having this conversation. We think we're talking about the same thing, but we're actually completely talking about different things, and it ends up where we're, like, going in circles and getting frustrated with each other. And so one piece of advice I would give is just to be, like, lay everything on this table, like, say what you're thinking about. You know, what are you mentally picturing? What are the assumptions that you're making. And then get on the same page because, you know, if you're you're a husband and wife, you're essentially a teen. It's not your traditional team, but the definition of a team is 2 or more people who are interdependent and have a shared goal. And so if you treat it like that, like, let's make sure that we come to a shared goal, and then we can do this together. Otherwise, they might think they're They have a shared goal, but in their mind, they have different schemas or assumptions or things. So that can also add me extra layer of complexity.

DJ Olojo [00:15:37]:

So we have different people with varying goals. Right? So we work a lot of folks who are married and the husband wants to keep the house. The wife doesn't wanna keep the house. They wanna start fresh or whatever else may be the case. So you have different goals. So you're saying, lay everything on the table. Explain to your partner why you wanna do whatever you think you wanna do. Explain to them your concerns. share with them your thoughts. Right? And then are you kinda bartering on kinda what the next step is? Is this just the negotiation? Is it just you know, help us understand what we can do to to move past just the I wanna keep it. They wanna get rid of it. Right? we're we're at a crossroads.

Nikki Blacksmith [00:16:20]:

It is kind of like a barter in a negotiation situation because what's gonna happen is if they don't come to agreement on what the goal is, then they're both gonna be going in different directions. And therefore, they will never get where they're trying to go, which is the problem. And I see this a lot with founders that we work with. They have They start a company. They they have ideas, but then their minds expand. Different things happen. And eventually, they have different mental visions of what the future might look like. they don't realize it. And then each one is going in a different direction, and therefore it causes conflict and friction, and they can't move forward. They're not making progress. So it really comes down to when we get to a place where we both understand and agree with crystal clarity like, what it is we're trying to do here. If you don't have a shared goal, it's gonna be so hard to get to a place where you're both happy. So that's the first step usually is. It's coming to an agreement, whether it's yourself, you just have to figure out like you said earlier. Like, what is the goal? What am I gonna do? there's more than one person, though, you have to have that conversation with somebody else and make sure you're both on the exact same page.

DJ Olojo [00:17:27]:

So Nick, we we've talked about the decision inertia. But if someone is in that state of decision inertia, or decision avoidance for a significant amount of time. Right? I know of a concept in psychology called decision fatigue, where, like, you are just basically you have too many decisions to make and you just say forget it. Right? But what is, like, the mental health impact of being in that state of inertia or being in that state of, like, despair for lack of a better word

Nikki Blacksmith [00:17:57]:

for extended amounts of time. Yeah. I mean, I think you said it really nicely. It's as people, we like to think that we have this, like, infinite amount of energy and thought process available, but think about days when you're just, like, for me, it's it's writing. Like, I write scientific papers. And at the end of the day, I'm like, well, I just use my brain so hard all day. Like, I can't even think anymore. And That's what happens is your brain is constantly processing information. Therefore, it's expending the resources that it's available. and you get exhausted. You almost like reach a state of burnout. And so reminding yourself that, one, we have limited Friday night set of resources, whether it's physical or cognitive, every day, there's only so much you can give. That's why we go to sleep so we can rest and re energize and get up the stay and have more space. But I think the key is to be easy on yourself. You know, sometimes I I right all day, and it's been only, like, 6 hours or 8 hours. I'm like, gosh, I have so much more work to do. Why can't I do it? You know, I'm so tired. It's like, well, you just literally, like, did the hardest work possible, like, trying to come up with new information that doesn't exist in the world, not just, like, consuming information. And so people need to do a little bit of reflection and just, you know, cope positively and and give space to realize that this is not an easy decision to make. This isn't an easy process, and you have to treat it like you would treat kind of like a work day. Right? Like, you want to be healthy And if you're not healthy and you've continued on this path, like, it leads to burnout. So, you know, I tell the same thing for for founders because they get mentally burnt out a lot, you know, because their decision after decision after decision, and there's all sorts of things coming. Is that part of your job is to stay healthy. You know, like, give yourself the sleep the time to exercise. And when you do that, your brain functions better, and it's easier to do those things. So it sounds kind of like maybe you're relevant to some people, but treat your brain like a muscle and give it time to, you know, recoup, feed it energy fuel that it needs. And so I think that's one way that you can kind of avoid that burnout, but it it absolutely happens. It's just I mean, think about it. You're just constantly ruminating and thinking and They aren't usually positive thoughts. You know, you're thinking what could happen? Like, what what's the worst case scenario here? And that can really take a toll on somebody. Mentally, it can lead to not only burnout, but, like, depression and anxiety conflict in in the family because they're irritable, and they have very few resources to give emotionally. So it can lead to a lot of mental health issues. It's it's a little bit different for everybody, but That's the line you're going down. Absolutely. So

DJ Olojo [00:20:51]:

there are two questions in that same vein that I wanna kinda target on a little bit. One is a lot of times the folks who are in foreclosure are strapped financially. Right? And so you have this financial weight that's on them along with the weight of all the things you just mentioned. You're snapping you're you're stressed out. You have tons of decisions to make. A lot of times, some folks may be sickly. So you have this co morbidity for lack for lack of a better term of different things that are impacting you. Right? What do you do when the worst happens? Like, and and when I say the worst, it's somebody who want to keep their home, They lose their home. It's sold, and now they're out on the street. What do you do when all the plans and all the dreams and all the aspirations get crushed. How do you bounce back from that? Like, you know, I know there's research on resiliency and there and things like that. But, like, help help our listeners just really figure that out because, unfortunately, I've seen that happen, and

Nikki Blacksmith [00:22:00]:

I don't know what to tell somebody in that situation besides, you know, tomorrow's gonna be a better day. I mean, that is a great question. It's something I think about all the time because I think, you know, I work with a lot of founders and entrepreneurs and and it's a very similar situation. Like, if they're company fails. It's like the end of the world. Right? Like, their dreams are crushed. They're out of a lot of money. They, you know, they don't have the security you would have in a traditional job. And in that case, it's usually, like, think about the bigger picture. Right? No one who was successful has gotten there without some kind of major failure or disaster or anything. So it's just like one step along the way. And if you can turn it into a learning experience rather than, I suck. I failed. You know, everything's over. What can you do differently next time and also recognize that you have a lot of agency and control over what happens next, which can be actually an opportunity sometimes. It might feel like it's, you know, terrible, but one one door closes another open. So it gives you space to think about, like, what could be next. How can I do things differently? But the key is to remember that there's agency in control and that it's just one blip in the bigger part of your life. Like, your life is full of different episodes and eras and chapters and things that happen. And This isn't gonna be forever. Right? It's not forever. It's just it sucks right now, but, like, how can you learn from it and become a better person? You know, like, my favorite story and probably overly he used is is the Michael Jordan. You know, he didn't get chosen on his high school varsity basketball team, but that didn't stop him. He could've stopped right there and said, I'm I'm not good enough, but turned a really terrible situation into something positive. So that's where I mean, it's probably easier said than done. We've all been in situations since it's really hard to get out of that negative thinking loop,

DJ Olojo [00:23:53]:

but if you can do it, it can empower you and and help you. And I echo your sentiments there because the the way I look at it is the situation sucks. but as long as you have breath in your lungs, as long as you are healthy, as long as you can, you know, walk and talk and you have the will to change your situation or not let it happen again, you are in a great position. Right? Because I know that there's somebody in the hospital room who has a prognosis that is, you know, life ending who would trade places with you. a thousand times over. Right? And so, you know, I try to paint that perspective. Although it sucks, the situation is terrible and it's not easy and it sucks, but that perspective of, like, I'm alive. I'm well. The future is bright. That that mindset of this sucks, but tomorrow's gonna be a better day. I think it's so key. Yeah. And I always think about it a little bit cheesy, but coming from a statistical standpoint, like, there's ups and downs. Nothing is constant forever. Right? And if you have

Nikki Blacksmith [00:24:55]:

really bad times, the good times are even better. And so it gives you this this perception or this perspective of You couldn't have good times if you didn't have the bad times, right, because you would have nothing to compare it to. It'd just be, like, flat and boring all the time. So if you can think about it that way too that, you know, it's just inevitable in anybody's life. Nobody's life is, like, a 100% perfect all the time and everything is rosy. Regardless of whether it's a foreclosure or somebody's death or a divorce, there's always gonna be something that takes us down. And it's just a matter of looking back and say, what can I learn from this? And and how can I do things differently in the future? Or how do I overcome this sadness or fear or doubt? And become stronger.

DJ Olojo [00:25:39]:

Absolutely. Well, leave it to leave it to Nikki to use statistics to to try to paint a a rosier picture of of why I should be happy that things are going bad for me. Right? Like, you know, so but, no, that leads us into, like, my favorite part of the podcast, which is called the bowtie Round, of course. And in the bow tie room, our listeners get to tie one on with with our guests, Nicky Blacksmith. So there are three questions that we ask in the bow tie round. The first is the b, and it is what is your best piece of advice for someone who is is facing foreclosure? or in a in a situation where they have some type of decision inertia. Right? The next question is the, oh, which is one thing you are grateful for right now. And then the the w, which is the last question, is your wildest or most interesting foreclosure related story. Now I know Nikki, you don't do a lot in foreclosure. So if you don't have a foreclosure, like I said, you can give us a good army story or or something like that. So let let's go ahead and tie one on. So what's your best piece of advice for someone in foreclosure.

Nikki Blacksmith [00:26:42]:

So my best piece of advice, and I think about this a lot for myself is For some reason, god knows what? I decided I was gonna start my own company. And every day I wake up, like, what in the world was I thinking? Like, how am I gonna do this? Like, like, craziest thing you've ever decided to do. And, you know, this is after having a PhD in a postdoc and, like, it's just It's so much uncertainty. There's ups and downs are crazy. It's an emotional roller coaster. It's every day you you'll feel like a loser and failure and those highs don't last very long. And so I I kind of ask myself, like, What on earth are you doing? Like and the way I look at it is I'm really challenging myself here just to become to do something I never thought I could do. If I go back to, like, my childhood, no way would I ever say I was gonna start a company. It was just, like, not something in my head. I don't know how I got here. just saw a problem, and I couldn't help myself. And I said, I gotta solve this and and started the company. But for me, it's a challenge. You know, it's a personal challenge. Like, I'm gonna surprise myself, you know, and it's gonna be awesome. Like, I'm gonna look back and be like, woah, you did that. Like, how did you do that? And for me, that's a different level of success, like, versus, you know, I can get an a in this class or or do this, but to me, it's like, I've overcome this or I've survived this or you know, it it's forces you to basically put a lot of confidence in yourself basically is what, I guess, what I'm trying to say is that you can do it and it will make you believe in yourself more and become stronger. And when you have confidence,

DJ Olojo [00:28:17]:

there's a lot you can do that. You never knew you could. Oh, no. That's phenomenal. And and I think that's something that no one can take away that that ability to say, I did this. Right? I I navigated this journey I got out this situation. I fought tooth and nail, and I made it happen. I think that that there's a there's a a resolute ownership that comes along with that that just stays with you. So I think that's really awesome. One thing that you're grateful for right now, you know, obviously, I know you're grateful to be on this podcast, of course, but, you know, like, one thing, what else are you grateful for? so much. I think about this all the time, and I'm so grateful for everything just mostly, and this is so cliche, but, like, I'm so grateful for my parents and my family, and they've just been so supportive.

Nikki Blacksmith [00:28:59]:

But, you know, I had parents that never said, oh, you should do this or you do that or become a lawyer, become a doctor. They were just like, what do you wanna do on how do we support you to get there? And I am probably one of the few people you will ever meet that says, I love my job. I have the greatest life ever. Like, even though there's a lot of hard things, I'm doing exactly what I wanna do. There's no regrets. But that was because they they left space for me to to make my own decisions, but also provided so much support along the way. that, like, kept me going.

DJ Olojo [00:29:32]:

That's phenomenal. That's phenomenal. kudos to your family and your parents. So the the w Right? What's your wildest or most interesting story?

Nikki Blacksmith [00:29:43]:

So I wouldn't say it's interesting. Maybe a little wild, mostly just scary. So I don't have any foreclosure stories, although I do have some housing stories that are interested in those. But for me, like, starting a company is is very similar because there's no really good options all the time. Like, there's a crap ton of financial stress. You know, there's unpredictability.

DJ Olojo [00:30:05]:

There's risk, you know, It's really, really difficult. Again, Nikki, I appreciate you coming on today. I appreciate you sharing your journey and and sharing all your nuggets of wisdom. Please do me a favor and let our listeners know how to kinda get in contact with you, how to keep track of your journey, how to learn more about you and your organization.

Nikki Blacksmith [00:30:25]:

My thing the easiest way is just find me on LinkedIn. I wanna keep Black Smith. Connect with me. Send me a message. We also have social media handles, but I'm not a huge social media fan, and so I'm just gonna ignore that even though probably my co founders and my marketing people ought to kill me for it. But -- Can you please let them know your company name? How about that? is Blackhawk Behavior Science, and I'll actually you your your audience can be the first to know that we are actually changing our name. and it is going to be submitted. So look out for that in the future. Samantha behavior science, what that means is that we look at systems at a meta level. So a person is on a team. A team is inside an organization. The organization's inside of an ecosystem. And so we look at the way all of those function together. And that could be helpful for you too, you know, like, mortgage and fine. They're they don't exist in a a isolation. Right? Like, they're impacted by economy and the banks, and there's lots of different pieces moving around that influence the the larger system. And when you understand the larger system, you're more likely to

DJ Olojo [00:31:28]:

have clear. Awesome. Awesome. Well, Nicky, thank you again for being on our podcast today. foreclosure fix family. Appreciate you listening in. Please do us a favor. If you found value in this conversation day, please like, subscribe on your favorite platform, or check us out at the foreclosure fix podcast.com. We appreciate you. Thank you so much, and god bless. The views and opinions on this podcast for informational purposes only and should not be construed as legal advice. If you have a specific legal question, we highly recommend you contact a qualified legal profession.